Proposed 2008 medal design (obverse)

[D. Carr]

Greetings everyone,

I know that the 2008 medal project has been anticipated for a long time and not much has happened.   That is entirely my doing as it seems one thing after another has come along this year to take up my time.   Fortunately, most of those things have been good, not bad.

Anyway, I've finally completed a sketch of a proposed obverse design.   All comments welcome.

[ElleKitty]

I have to have that!  OMG.  KITTY!

*calms down.*

I think that design is quite lovely, and very worthy of the Knightesses and Lady Knights of the Coin Table.  Reminiscent of Una and the Lion, of Britannia coin fame! I love it.

[CoinCrusader42]

I figured Kitty would like it!!

Daniel, you are the master.  I think it would be great!!

[justabeginner]

Looks great, but could they look less cartoonish and more like Narnia like But I suppose this is just a sketch

[Yass]

Unfortunately, I only get a little "x".  Hopefully, someone can put up a different format. Regardless, whever the design, I'm sure I'll love it.

Happily, while posting this missive. I was able to scroll down and voila, there it is!  Yep, I love it.

[KurtS]

I like both the balance and flow of the subjects in your composition. 
My only thought might be the KOTC lettering. With the current weight, how prominent does it figure against the other elements?
I'm just one opinion here, so I'm curious what others think. 

[Triggersmob]

I love the basic lay out, but would have prefered to see the lady dressed as a knight, instead of looking more like a Queen. Having said that, if our Knightessess approve then it's OK by me.

[ElleKitty]

The only bit that really troubles me, is why is she holding a plate?  Her left hand might find a better, more suitable object to be holding.  And, as much as I would love to see our Lady in full plate armour, that would sort of make it harder to pick up visually that she was in fact, a Lady.

Perhaps if her hair was left flowing behind her to about her waist..  and then it might be more appropriate for her to be holding a sword, or a longbow instead of a 'magic' staff.

[D. Carr]

The only bit that really troubles me, is why is she holding a plate?  Her left hand might find a better, more suitable object to be holding.  And, as much as I would love to see our Lady in full plate armour, that would sort of make it harder to pick up visually that she was in fact, a Lady.

Perhaps if her hair was left flowing behind her to about her waist..  and then it might be more appropriate for her to be holding a sword, or a longbow instead of a 'magic' staff.

My plan was for the "plate" to actually be a large medal - the design of which would be a reduced-size version of the KOTCT coat of arms (or whatever we decide to put on the reverse side of this medal).   Sort of like the 2007 medal that had a small image of the reverse-side design on the Knight's breastplate.

The "magic staff" could also be interpreted as a mace (weapon).   My initial idea was to make it a spear.   I could still do that.

[KurtS]

And, as much as I would love to see our Lady in full plate armour, that would sort of make it harder to pick up visually that she was in fact, a Lady.

We could have her dressed in nordic opera regalia--there's a certain ladylike quality to that. j/k 

[scottishmoney]

The only bit that really troubles me, is why is she holding a plate?  Her left hand might find a better, more suitable object to be holding.  And, as much as I would love to see our Lady in full plate armour, that would sort of make it harder to pick up visually that she was in fact, a Lady.

Perhaps if her hair was left flowing behind her to about her waist..  and then it might be more appropriate for her to be holding a sword, or a longbow instead of a 'magic' staff.

She could hold a large coin, e'en wi' a 'Roo on it.  But she does need to have more of a feminine figure, bit more in the chest etc.  I also like ElleKitty's suggestion of a sword or longbow, even a pike.  The staff does nothing.

The lion might need to look a bit more forward, he looks like he is going to sample the Miss.  Perhaps the jug behind the Miss, can instead be a cornucopia, with hopefully gold coins flowing forth representing collective knowledge.

[scottishmoney]

We could have her dressed in nordic opera regalia--there's a certain ladylike quality to that. j/k 

Death by Brunhilde maybe.

[TwoShadows]

I am pleased with the balance of the design. The idea of a medallion in her hands is also a very welcomed concept. I can live with a staff, a sword, or whatever but, after giving it a bit of thought, I am not sure a sword would be appropriate? The magic staff, if that is what we want to call it, may also be looked upon as a staff of coin wisdom? We each work our own magic in obtaining those elusive coins we really must have in our possession so I do believe the staff may be a great idea if we all understand its meaning? I too could live with a bit more chest and long hair but will still consent to Daniel's final design as he, and only he, knows what will be "strikeable" when it comes to our choices of silver, copper and pewter. There are problems in the process which most of us do not understand so I trust Daniel's designs and knowledge. If you remember correctly the original design (sketch) of last years knight on a horse was far from the finished product which we all now cherish as a part of our collection.
The lion was an unexpected surprise and it does fair well into our hobby as the King of all beasts seems to hold much meaning throughout history and still resides on many coins throughout the world.
I say let Daniel do what he does best and we can proceed forward!

[KurtS]

Death by Brunhilde maybe.

Lol...yes, I hope my joke was understood; women in armor aren't always, uh...disarming.

Well, as a constructive comment--the lady in the dwg. holds two circular objects, so perhaps a contrast would be nice there.

[Humpybong]

I will like it no matter.....

Looking at all comments I think we all agree on that point.

I do like the idea of the Knightessess in armour....but this is only a sketch and I think Daniel knows what he is doing.

Lets get it moving.....would like it for Christmas this year.

[Tobyle]

I say let Daniel do what he does best and we can proceed forward!

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes! I agree! I can't wait to see the finished product ......  from the results of last years medallion, I have full faith in Daniel Carr.

[Nevol]

I agree that we go along with whatever design Daniel comes up with.  He's the one that knows what's do-able & what's not.

I think everyone was very happy with the 2007 version & feel quite sure the same will apply to the 2008 design.

[KurtS]

I'm only a newbie here, but I wanted to say I'm very impressed by his work I've seen. 

[TwoShadows]

I can and WILL accept Daniels design as is or with any changes he should make. The thought that WE again are doing that which can not be done by an online group tends to overwhelm me at times. What a great bunch of people we have here.
I will try to get in touch with Daniel soon concerning prices of finished silver and copper 38mm medallions and the 63mm pewter. Hopefully I (We) can start the ordering process very soon so that we can give Daniel some idea how many of each to strike.
With a little luck and cooperation perhaps we can beat that Xmas delivery that Humpybong has mentioned. Will keep everyone posted and I assume the same group of Knights and Knightesses will fill the same roles they did last year in this process?

[CoinCrusader42]

Happy to be the "mailer" again, if asked.

[DL20K]

I know my vote doesn't really count, but the design as pictured in the first post, is superb. Very nice artwork.

[TwoShadows]

DL20K once you entered the doors of our castle you become one of us. Your voice and your vote are equal from the first day of entry. We encourage you to ALWAYS voice your opinion and you will find that everyone here matters. Welcome to the only MEMBER/COLLECTOR owned forum on the net. Our 2007 medallions were absolutely beautiful and the 2008 which will be a tribute to our Ladies are a continuation of OUR dreams which most of the world said could not be done! Glad to have your vote and your opinion as both are valued here.

[LordPercy]

I'd like to see a bit more cleavage.

[Dumanyu]

I like it lots. Excellent design... can't wait. I like the idea of a lady on the design.

[RenaL]

I've also imagined a Jeanne D'arc - like knightess;
full body armour without the helmet, to let her hair flow.

something like these;




I loved the lion idea, agree with Kurt, that the KoCT part could be a bit more emphasized.

[Muckeye]

I would like to see the lettering larger/heavier.
regards,

[Dumanyu]

Fantastic pencil drawing below!!! That would be perfect. The original is very nice, and I like that as well (as long as someone fixes her clubbed foot). But the pencil drawing... WOW. Imaging her looking at a coin behind her head, instead of the moon / sun. Now we're talking.

[Paint Your Wagon]

If only Monnaie de Paris would abandon Tintin and other oldfashined stripdesigners
I would love a dragonslayer 

[Dumanyu]

Love the lady, but that looks more like a giant worm.

[scottishmoney]

Thanks RenaL, now we are getting somewhere. 

[KurtS]

Nice balance on the pencil drawing.

Love the lady, but that looks more like a giant worm.

I'd choose her over Orkin for pest control.

[ElleKitty]

I wouldn't.  Can you imagine the mess, and breakage?  Eesh.

I'm alright with the idea of the Lady Knight wearing armour, although I'm fairly sure that when I'm in the castle, I leave it in my room.  However, I don't want to change the basic design that Daniel has offered us too much.  The longer we haggle over the design, the longer it will take to get the finished product into our collections.  Just a reminder.

[CoinCrusader42]

Love the pencil drawing.

I hope Daniel can do something like that for us.

[TwoShadows]

Well Daniel I hope you submit your final and or revised renditions for the obverse and reverse very soon so that we may start the process for selling prices and taking orders. Not to mention the fellows here are starting to lean towards a CENTERFOLD rendition of a Knightess!    It is September so we had best get a few things finalized and get the ball rolling so Daniel can start the hard part. Hopefully Daniel will respond soon as I know this has been a very very busy year for him and his endeavors.

[D. Carr]

Before I start any sculpting on the obvese, I think it would be best to get the reverse finalized.
I suggest a design that will remain constant over the years.

My first rendition is this - last year's shield superimposed over a fleur de lis:

[D. Carr]

Here is a simpler version that I like a bit better:

[latman]

I like both, but I actually prefer the first one. I like a little more design and detail. More to draw the eye, and you can find details you missed the second time you look. And perhaps it is a little more representative of the Castle theme of this forum. My humble opinion anyway.

[ElleKitty]

I think I much prefer the second version, the one without the pine cone things at the top and bottom.  The silver proof fields on that one would look gorgeous!

Thank you Daniel.

[Muckeye]

I agree with Miss Kitty, the less ornate the better.
Fleur de lis ?. Not in context with our aims.
regards,

[Tobyle]

I like both, but the second one really takes 1st place for me.

[NoHope587]

I like the original (2nd)

[tyjulie]

First one for me

[arthrene]

I like the first design better.

If the second design were to be used, I think I'd like to see the smaller circle removed and the shield enlarged.

[Nevol]

I like the First rendition best.  Looks more Knight oriented with the two helmets.

[KurtS]

I think a Fleur de Lis is a nice visual design, and helps break up the fields into interesting negative shapes. However, in the context of coins, this shape is a bit specific to particular countries. I like the simpler version too, but feel the "circle within a circle" leaves a hole around the central design. Well, that's just my take. 

[D. Carr]

The second simpler presentation  would be my choice, especially if you were to place those two small helmits in the upper two swirls in the shield. I would admit this would really take some mighty steady hands to make them fit.

I had that idea as well and I'll do that shortly.

[Triggersmob]

I think a Fleur de Lis is a nice visual design, and helps break up the fields into interesting negative shapes. However, in the context of coins, this shape is a bit specific to particular countries. I like the simpler version too, but feel the "circle within a circle" leaves a hole around the central design. Well, that's just my take.

Exactly what I was thinking.

[CoinCrusader42]

Either way is fine with me.

But, for the other side, I sure like that pencil drawing!!!!

[AdamL]

The second simpler presentation  would be my choice, especially if you were to place those two small helmits in the upper two swirls in the shield. I would admit this would really take some mighty steady hands to make them fit.

I had that idea as well and I'll do that shortly.

I'll be very interested to see that one

[TwoShadows]

I must say I do like the Fleur de Lis as it keeps the Knight theme on both sides of the coin and hopefully it will become a very well known reverse in the years to come?
I assume we can start an order thread before too long and, if nothing has changed in our thought process, it will be satin silver, proof silver, satin copper, proof copper and the large 63mm pewter available this year. We, due to this late date, will limit ordering time and a payment period of about a month. We will have our totals and money headed to D. Carr quickly. If funds allow there will be a few extras purchased as we did last year but don't count on it happening. Start thinking about your order as it is mid-September! Hopefully we will be able to get prices very soon and start the process before precious metals start an upward trend again.

Daniel its all up to you! 

[Yass]

I love both designs, but if I had to choose, I's select the first design.
Regardless of the choice, I will have one of each variety made.

Looks like I will have to re-register with Paypal.  I've been avoiding it, but it has curtailed my ability to buy from KOTCT members.

[D. Carr]

I think I like this one best (although the Knights would have to come up with something to say on the lower banner):

[Triggersmob]

That's better. Love it.

Now for a motto on the bottom banner. Hmmmm
How about...  In invicem nos fides (In each other we trust)

Try out this translator and come up with some ideas... http://www.translation-guide.com/free_online_translators.php?from=English&to=Latin

That's if you want a nice sounding Latin motto, I guess it could be in English.

[arthrene]

I love this!

[Nevol]

I'd vote for this one.  It's great!

[NoHope587]

How about putting the knight of the year on the bottom

[Topher]

Wow.  And I have enough trouble drawing stick figures.

[D. Carr]

How about putting the knight of the year on the bottom

I could do that, but then if you decide to make a run of medals next year, a new reverse die would have to be made.   I think the idea is to make the reverse stay the same from one year to the next so that the revese die can be reused.

[KurtS]

I like the balance of this design. 

[TwoShadows]

Now I do like your "worldly" reverse Daniel. I would suggest something that will be a part of our organization forever such as Old Dan's statement, "In Each Knight We Shall Trust".
Looks like we are getting there and I do agree we should stick with a design to cut reverse expenses from here on out. Changing the obverse will be undertaken next year so we can worry about that design then!

[AdamL]

Now I do like your "worldly" reverse Daniel. I would suggest something that will be a part of our organization forever such as Old Dan's statement, "In Each Knight We Shall Trust".
Looks like we are getting there and I do agree we should stick with a design to cut reverse expenses from here on out. Changing the obverse will be undertaken next year so we can worry about that design then!

I agree with all of that.
Great design!

[D. Carr]

Now I do like your "worldly" reverse Daniel. I would suggest something that will be a part of our organization forever such as Old Dan's statement, "In Each Knight We Shall Trust".
Looks like we are getting there and I do agree we should stick with a design to cut reverse expenses from here on out. Changing the obverse will be undertaken next year so we can worry about that design then!

Do you want the Latin or English version (and which wording, exactly) ?
(note that fewer letters will have a better chance of fitting on the banner without being too small).

[Triggersmob]

(note that fewer letters will have a better chance of fitting on the banner without being too small).

I was going to say the same as Olddan, but changed it to make it shorter in Latin.

[TwoShadows]

Daniel you do what is BEST for you. I must admit a little Latin might add an air of mystery to those who might see the medallion in the future.  I can live with either and I must assume so can the rest of the Knights and Knightesses. We just have to make sure we make reference to the Latin somewhere on the forum so that us "old" guys don't forget what it means.

[AdamL]

I could go either way, but prefer the latin. And if that makes it shorter and easier to add to the design, then I say go for it.

[Yass]

How about putting the knight of the year on the bottom

I could do that, but then if you decide to make a run of medals next year, a new reverse die would have to be made.   I think the idea is to make the reverse stay the same from one year to the next so that the revese die can be reused.

Stick to a motto.  Whilst it is nice to have the KOTY on the reverse in recognition of their contributions, there is always the potential for lobbying, envy and all the baser human emotions to come to the forefront.

And as Daviud suggests it's also the most practicle solution.

[latman]

I think this one is the winner too. And a bit of Latin not only adds a bit of mystery, but also signifies stability and knowledge.

[ElleKitty]

Daniel you do what is BEST for you.

Terry, I have to disagree here.  While I certainly don't want to make Daniel's job harder than it has to be, isn't the whole point that we've commissioned him to make these medallions for us?  He isn't doing this just for fun, after all.

We have a right and an obligation to speak up and voice our opinion about these designs.  Granted, in the interests of time we can only do a very basic opinion, but still.  It's going to be our medallion!

[TwoShadows]

ElleKitty, From past experiences I can tell you we will NEVER come to a majority vote on anything to do with this design. So, in my humble opinion, no ones knows what will work any better than Daniel when it comes to striking a medallion or coin. We have agreed, for the most part, on a design so let our engraver help us with the process which I am sure he knows best. While I have design ideas or slight changes I think would be great I am very aware they would only prolong the process as we continue to haggle new changes. We basically turned Daniel loose last year and I have NOT heard one complaint about the finished medallion nor the prices (cheaper than the U.S. Mint) we paid to get them and quite honestly the sketches we were provided did not begin to show the finished beauty of the medallion.  My efforts are NOT to keep anyone from stating their opinion but only to move the process closer to reality and, like it or not, it is mid-Sept.
I might add there is much more to this story and the delay in getting this medallion quest underway but those reasons and answers will come later with an announcement/explanation from Daniel Carr at HIS request.

[edix]

Great designs and great dialogue all around.
I just got electric power back after 5 days without, since the hurricane hit Houston, and my computer is crashing a lot.
Carry on!

[D. Carr]

[TwoShadows]

I APPROVE of this design.

[Triggersmob]

Fantastic, looks great.

[RenaL]

Looks great!

The latin phrase didn't feel right though, can't we have something with "the darkside"
We had AoD on the wooden dollars.

Daniel, I couldn't figure out the third symbol (helmet, Fleur de lis, ?)

And, I know this is because it's a big picture, but the book looks very plain, maybe some wavy lines or the year 2005 on it?

[AdamL]

Looks great to me.

[D. Carr]

Looks great!

The latin phrase didn't feel right though, can't we have something with "the darkside"
We had AoD on the wooden dollars.

Daniel, I couldn't figure out the third symbol (helmet, Fleur de lis, ?)

And, I know this is because it's a big picture, but the book looks very plain, maybe some wavy lines or the year 2005 on it?

[TwoShadows]

Dainiel I like it a LOT! I will need to get with you on current prices so that we may start the order process. You can use the forum email or if you like.  Looks like another winner to me!

Will start on the woodies very very soon. Will keep you posted so that we might send everything out at the same time.

[KurtS]

This is very nice! 

[Nevol]

Great design! 

[latman]

That is definitely a winner. Beautiful design Daniel, well done.

[TwoShadows]

Seems we are again about to set the standards other forums only dream about? Don't you just love that feeling! The tradition continues!!!

[CoinCrusader42]

Looks great to me.

Hope we go for that pencil drawing for the other side!!

[Humpybong]

WOW!  Away just a few days and look what happens........I am currently in North Queensland (Gladstone) but will not be back to the castle gates for another 3-4 days (maybe).

However, in my opinion (not that it is worth much) we have a WINNER.

Count me in for one of each.

GREAT designs Daniel, you have done it again.

[Tpatna]

Looks awesome....  Cant wait to have it in hand 

[TwoShadows]

Won't be long now Old Dan. I am looking at numbers, based on last years order, and see a possible increase will be needed should silver move upward. Also I am afraid demand may be less this year than last and  want to make sure we cover all expenses from the sale of medallion and won't have to beg, borrow or steal to close out this project. Last year, if I remember correcty, we paid our debt and still had a couple hundred dollars left to support this new home and that was with a total order of 168 medallions.

At this time I see the following RETAIL COSTS to our members;

Proof silver......$35.00
Satin silver......$35.00
Proof Copper....$15.00
Satin Copper....$15.00
62mm Pewter...$12.00

Shipping and handling on ALL orders will go to $6.00 (up a buck) Everyone regardless where you live will pay exactly the same amount for their coins and shipping.

We are looking at the following costs for the 2008 medallion program so our orders must cover these expenses. We did it last year and we can do it again!

Obverse/Reverse design and sculpting total $750
39mm die blanks total $60
63mm die blanks total $40
39mm Obverse and Reverse engraving total $200
63mm Obverse and Reverse engraving total $300

39mm copper satin $2.50 each
39mm copper proof like $3.00 each

39mm Silver Satin $2.50 each + bullion (appx. $13 presently)
39mm Silver Satin $3.00 each + bullion (appx. $13 presently)

63mm Pewter $4.50 each

Edge marking "999" silver or equivalent $0.25 each
Edge marking individual serial numbers $1.00 each

It is imperative we have a STRONG order again this year to cover the costs of having the medallion struck. I will start the order thread and expect payment in the next month if possible. The sooner I get funds out of my hands and in Daniels the better off I will be!!!
39mm

[KurtS]

The retail costs seem very reasonable for such a limited run. 
I tried looking up these specs but so far haven't found them. Is the copper medal .999 as well, and what would the total weights be? Thanks!

[D. Carr]

[scottishmoney]

Oh my!    She is kind of hottay materiel.

[KurtS]

That's very nice!  I'll put my order in this evening, once I get my mind off the markets. 

[TwoShadows]

I think Scottishmoney has pretty much summed things up! This program is off and running so NOW we need for our membership to respond with an order! Any size of an order is a plus for the 2008 Medallion Quest, a plus for KOTCT and an opportunity for ALL of us to have something that can never be obtained any where else. This is a ONE time deal with one striking and it will be a very limited mintage again this year. Lets support this effort and reward Daniel Carr for his service to our group. Without his patience and understanding none of this would be possible. I/We need to hear from as many members as possible in the upcoming 20 days!

[AuldFartte]

Wow, that is a beautiful design, Mr. Carr !!! 

[Nevol]

Beautiful! 

[TwoShadows]

I might point out that I/We are sitting on a $50 contest winnings each for Snooba, Tobyle and Renal. These monies were earmarked by Paint Your Wagon for your 2008 Medallion Quest purchase. I do hope I hear from each of you concerning these funds generously donated by our Belgium Knight and FRIEND!!!

[CoinCrusader42]

A little side note.

I was showing a friend my 63mm pewter medal, and the guy asked if I would sell it to him for $50

I didn't have any extra ones to sell, but it made me realize that those who might buy one or two extra probably wouldn't need to worry about getting stuck with them.

[TwoShadows]

I think we should seriously consider making a few available to the general public but the key word here is FEW! We could test the waters, so to speak, with Ebay and if an individual collector comes along and makes an offer like your friend did, WELL......? I will say the SILVER should be reserved for our members PERIOD as it keeps them very special to each and every one of us but I, at the same time, do see the potential for forum income as well as personal income if a member wishes to invest in such an adventure. Once the medallions leave our castle we have no control over what happens to them the next day or in the future, nor do we care. They become property of the member who bought them. It is that simple.


I will probably add a few pewters to my list as one never knows what tomorrow may bring? Not to mention a 63mm medallion does attract attention!

[latman]

Being a business man, I can't understand why this hasn't been raised  before. But being relatively new here, I didn't think it was my place to say anything. Still not 100% sure how the Castle running costs are maintained, but this looks to me to be a great source of income. Not only does it add revenue, but it is a fantastic advertising medium. I agree that the silver should be kept for members. Running with the idea to full potential, if the sale of the others generates profit over and above that of what is necessary  for castle running costs, then that money could be offset against the cost of the silver. There by making it more affordable for the members that aren't in a position to pay for silver medals.

Just my 2 cents.

[TwoShadows]

The idea has merit and potential but no one has stepped up who has the time or money for such an adventure. There is nothing to stop a member or the group as a whole to offer up some pewter or copper medallions for sale AFTER they leave the KOTCT castle. I guess as a group we could buy a few extra, if funds are available, and put them on Ebay or perhaps in Numismatic News or CoinWorld. I do think we could manage a story in one magazine or the other but it would involve sending a sample to the editor and hoping it gets returned. I know they do stories on other coin clubs and their offerings but do we qualify as a coin club? Basically it is just something we have NOT attempted to this date! I guess we could test the waters with a Wooden Dollar before offering the Copper or large Pewter to see where we stand? Anyone volunteering for such a project? I am sure the profits would be AFTER our volunteers expenses!

[ElleKitty]

Myself, I think it would be worthwhile to try to see how our medallions would sell to an outside market.  I don't have the funds to try it though; I barely manage to buy my own.

[TwoShadows]

ElleKitty you do more than your fair share for us! Not to mention your modeling duties for our quests this year!!!

[latman]

If you are willing to give it a try (and I assume it would have to be put to a vote?), I will help. Obviously the details would need to be worked out fully and carefully first, however, speed is also an issue here. If a vote can be organised, and the details finalised by the end of the month, we would be well on track for being inside the current medallion timetable.