Merlin Has Spoken!

[TwoShadows]

So it is requested so it shall be........Merlin's exact words. Welcome to the newest board!

[Polymath_Numismatics]

So it is requested so it shall be........Merlin's exact words. Welcome to the newest board!

"So it is written, so shall it be!"
- Yul Brynner playing Ramses II in The Ten Commandments (1956)

Good - now there is an Ancient & Medieval place here!

[Polymath_Numismatics]

In honor of the cheesy Egyptian reference, here are some Egyptian coins:

Ptolemy II Silver Tetradrachm:


Ptolemy II Small Bronze:


2005 Cleopatra VII 50 Piastres:


2007 Tutankhamun 1 Pound:


OK, Ok, the last 2 really aren't ancient - they are modern coins with ancient themes (a category all by itself) but I think they are pretty cool 

If these cause sufficient drooling, I'll post my 2 real Cleopatra VII silver tetradrachms and my 'whopper' AE40 bronze.

[EgCollector]

Thats great, Thanks Merlin.

I dont know much about this topic, so i'll be waiting for your posts.

[Triggersmob]

So just how old does a coin have to be, to be classified as ancient?

[EgCollector]

In honor of the cheesy Egyptian reference, here are some Egyptian coins:

Ptolemy II Silver Tetradrachm:



...............................................If these cause sufficient drooling, I'll post my 2 real Cleopatra VII silver tetradrachms and my 'whopper' AE40 bronze.

I am all eyes      

[Polymath_Numismatics]

So just how old does a coin have to be, to be classified as ancient?

Generally speaking, modern world coins begin in the year 1600 (an arbitrary Krause Publication thing I think but I don't know for sure).

Coins made between 1492 to 1599 are generally considered Renaissance / Reformation era which was really the beginning of the modern era.

So I'd say anything made prior to 1492 is ancient broadly speaking.

Byzantine & Medieval coins are generally treated as a later era subset of ancient coins.

The oldest ancient coins are ones generally struck out of oblong lumps of naturally occurring electrum from parts of Greece that date back to the 7th century B.C.

The most widely collected are probably Late Roman Bronzes in uncleaned condition. You buy them in large lots on eBay and clean them yourself. It's a very cheap way to start collecting ancients. You can buy them for less than $1 each but you get what you pay for.

Collecting Roman silver & billon (debased silver) denarii and antoninianii of common emperors like Hadrian, Septimius Severus, Gordianus III & Philip the Arab is an inexpensive place to start for collecting ancient silver.

A common misconception is that any coin pre-dating 1900 is ancient. I often get unsolicited emails from people with coins they inherited from a grandparent like Morgan silver dollars from the 1800s who want to know what their "ancient coin is worth" and I tell them I don't deal much in 'modern' U.S. coins and you can just see their head spinning in disbelief.

Hope that answers your question. 

[Polymath_Numismatics]

...............................................If these cause sufficient drooling, I'll post my 2 real Cleopatra VII silver tetradrachms and my 'whopper' AE40 bronze.

I am all eyes      
[/quote]

I need to make some scans. BTW, I saw that bust of Cleopatra some years back at the Chicago Field Museum when they had the Cleopatra exhibit there. My father and I took my eldest daughter there 8 yrs ago on her 7th birthday just as he had taken me there in the 1970s (don't recall the exact year) to see the King Tut exhibit when I was a kid. It was a great exhibit, we bought a few replica coins and a book about Cleopatra for her on the way out which she read over and over until she broke the binding.

Earlier this year, my Pastor friend and I saw the Dead Sea Scrolls in Milwaukee and they had quite a few coins as part of the exhibit. I started to give my pastor friend a detailed explanation of the coins and a small crowd gathered and finally a woman asked if I was a tour guide. I said no and my minister friend slapped me on the back and said "I bet you get that a lot in these places!" and laughed and we moved on after I answered a few questions.


Look for the scans later today.

[Paint Your Wagon]

I prefer my Cleopatra to the 50 piasters 
It was a gift from an American friend since they were struck by the Franklin Mint and staid in Merica

[EgCollector]

I am more into silver than gold

I like this one 

[Sap]

So just how old does a coin have to be, to be classified as ancient?

The division of history into "ancient", "mediaeval" and "modern" was largely an invention of Renaissance historians. They declared themselves to be "modern" and considered everything before their time to be "mediaeval". The "ancient" age was held to have ended with the fall of the Western Roman Empire in 476 AD. It has very little practical meaning in non-European contexts, but is still often applied there by Western collectors. China, for instance, never really had a "dark age" in the same sense that Europe did.

Personally, I use the following definitions for my coin collection.

"Ancient" is anything from the invention of coinage up to 500 AD. It's a convenient break for us numismatists because in 498 AD the "Eastern Roman" emperor Anastasius I reformed the coinage, effectively beginning the "Byzantine series". Thus, everything "Roman" is ancient, everything "Byzantine" is mediaeval.

The end of the mediaeval period is somewhat arbitrarily set at 1450 AD. Some historians and collectors try to tie the beginning of the "modern" period to a specific historical event or marker, such as 1453 (the fall of Constantinople and the end of Byzantine Empire), 1492 (Columbus discovering new world), 1517 (the start of the Protestant Reformation), 1518 (introduction of the thaler coin) or 1601 (beginning of Krause catalogues).

[Sap]

A common misconception is that any coin pre-dating 1900 is ancient. I often get unsolicited emails from people with coins they inherited from a grandparent like Morgan silver dollars from the 1800s who want to know what their "ancient coin is worth" and I tell them I don't deal much in 'modern' U.S. coins and you can just see their head spinning in disbelief.

I've met collectors who think everything struck after 1600 is "modern junk".

[Templar]

BOY DO I HAVE A LOT OF "JUNK"-----I HAVE VERY FEW PRE 1600 COINS----MY  SHORTS DATE BACK PRETTY FAR BUT NOT QUITE THAT FAR.........
THIS IS AN IMPRESSIVE SITE----THE AMOUNT OF INFORMATION IS TOP NOTCH---THANKS I REALLY LEARNED MUCH ABOUT THE DATING AND DIVISIONS OF AGES ON COINS---PLEASE KEEP ADDING INFO TO THIS POST..........I GUESS THAT "47 WHEAT PENNY"  ISN'T AN OLD COIN

YOUR SERVANT AND FRIEND.........TEMPLAR---I WILL PASS THIS INFO ON TO MY STAFF...

[Triggersmob]

Thanks for the explanation guys.
Looks like I don't have any ancients.

[AdamL]

I'll have to post a few of my ancients when I get some time. I don't have anything special. But I kinda like the ancients.

[Polymath_Numismatics]

So just how old does a coin have to be, to be classified as ancient?

The division of history into "ancient", "mediaeval" and "modern" was largely an invention of Renaissance historians. They declared themselves to be "modern" and considered everything before their time to be "mediaeval". The "ancient" age was held to have ended with the fall of the Western Roman Empire in 476 AD. It has very little practical meaning in non-European contexts, but is still often applied there by Western collectors. China, for instance, never really had a "dark age" in the same sense that Europe did.

Personally, I use the following definitions for my coin collection.

"Ancient" is anything from the invention of coinage up to 500 AD. It's a convenient break for us numismatists because in 498 AD the "Eastern Roman" emperor Anastasius I reformed the coinage, effectively beginning the "Byzantine series". Thus, everything "Roman" is ancient, everything "Byzantine" is mediaeval.

The end of the mediaeval period is somewhat arbitrarily set at 1450 AD. Some historians and collectors try to tie the beginning of the "modern" period to a specific historical event or marker, such as 1453 (the fall of Constantinople and the end of Byzantine Empire), 1492 (Columbus discovering new world), 1517 (the start of the Protestant Reformation), 1518 (introduction of the thaler coin) or 1601 (beginning of Krause catalogues).

Greetings & Salutations!

Those are good dates and historical markers too.

I think the 1400 to 1600 period is kind of a no-man's land. Some people (because of Columbus, the Reformation, etc) put that period in the modern era but on other internet lists I have seen discussions quite regularly regarding coins from that period on both ancient lists and modern world lists. Ditto for commercial websites like Vcoins.com and non-commercial ones like coinarchives.com.

A colleague of mine, Wayne Sayles has a good book out about what he calls "non-classical" ancient coins. Wayne's books are very good and avoid too much technical jargon. Wayne has been a collector/dealer for a very long time and knows his stuff. He also has a book out about Byzantine (also called Romaion) coins. They are very good introductory books on the topics.

[TwoShadows]

I have a few ancients but lack the knowledge to actively pursue them. But NOW we have someone to turn to!!!  I can see my collection expanding again!!!

[Nevol]

       The only 'Ancient' in my house is me!        

[TwoShadows]

I guess I REALLY do love ancients then!!! I have soooooo many sweethearts in OZ!

[Pocketcoins]

My kids said I was Ancient and I told them no, I was only medieval and my wife said she knew that was wrong becouse she knows that I'm full evil.     

Seriously though really good info. Keep it up.

[Yass]

I love the background information on ancient and medieval coins...but, I absolutely love PYW's gold and Egs silver proofs.

[NoHope587]

'Old' topic I know but just took the coins out for their next rinse. After another  6months in olive oil
Some detail is beginning to show on a few. others are showing no improvement.

the coin on the bottom is the control coin. they were all in this shape when I got them.
Back into fresh olive oil to start year 4...

[Yass]

Nice set of rocks you have there Nohope 

[Paint Your Wagon]

'Old' topic I know but just took the coins out for their next rinse. After another  6months in olive oil
Some detail is beginning to show on a few. others are showing no improvement.

the coin on the bottom is the control coin. they were all in this shape when I got them.
Back into fresh olive oil to start year 4...

If these coins are not "expensive" you might try electroysis
My friend the retired coindealer does that and half came out superb the other half was
ruined by pitting . I think he got to impatient and used too much current
You have however to change the bath every few hours to keep the electrolytes up .

I only plated iron with bronze at the university and that was in a sodium cyanate bath with
a liter poison duh under an extraction hood.

[Templar]

AFTER READING ALL THE INPUT.......MAYBE WE  SHOULD CALL THIS TOPIC "DR. NUMISMATIC HAS SPOKEN"........AS WELL ARE SOUNDING LIKE A CLINIC.......WE COULD HAVE AN ASK THE DOCTOR COLUMN WHERE PEOPLE COULD AS QUESTIONS AND MAYBE GET A FEW GOOD ANSWERS...........

YOUR LEARNING FRIEND.........THE TEMPLAR

[Nighthawk]

I will post some pics here too when I get a chance. Nice coins shown here thus far. Keep 'em coming! 

[Templar]

WEREN'T THE "PICS" A TRIBE IN THE BRITISH ISLES

TEMPLAR

[Yass]

WEREN'T THE "PICS" A TRIBE IN THE BRITISH ISLES

TEMPLAR

Sorry Empler, your missing a "T" 

[Templar]

HANKS YASS...I HAVE BEEN LOOKING ALL OVER HE PLACE BU I JUS CAN' FIND HAT DARN HING ANYWHERE.........MAYBE I COULD BUY A CONSONAN  LIKE HEY DO ON ELEVISION.....BU I SUPPOSE HA WOULD BE OO EASY.....WELL I WILL KEEP URNING HINGS OVER ILL I FIND HA LEER......IF YOU HAVE ONE O SELL LE  ME KNOW

YOUR FRIEND AND SERVAN.............HE EMPLAR

[Nighthawk]

      "T" ...............  Here Joe, borrow mine!  

[Templar]

HANKS NIGH HAWK....

                               HE EMPLAR

[Triggersmob]

Joe, have you been forgetting to take your medication. LOL

[Nighthawk]

Joe, I gave you a T yesterday!! Did you lose that one too?  

[Templar]

OOP.......BOY YOU MI A FEW DAY AND EVERYBODY  GET ALL UPET.....YOU GUY ARE HARD TO PLEAE.................DARN.....NOW I HAVE LOT MY       .......HELP

YOUR ERVANT AND FRIEND..............THE TEMPLAR

[Triggersmob]

Here you can have mine....S

teve